Catrina Allen Prediction Thread

[Hampstead]

Actually, benefit of the doubt, which I heard first when I was seven in 1967, is a fallacy. There is no benefit of the doubt. The umpire makes the call and he is correct 100% of the time. That's how they train referees. This isn't the same, but the call is the same. The majority of the card makes the call. If there is no consensus, the player essentially makes the call, iirc. No benefit, just a majority call. In the event there is doubt, the official on the course makes the call. At no time is there the call, "well, we don't really know so we'll give it to the player."

Guess I've been doing it wrong for over 20 years of competitive play.


Every tournament, every weekly doubles, we've played it " Benefit of the doubt goes to the player "

 

[lyleoross]

Guess I've been doing it wrong for over 20 years of competitive play.


Every tournament, every weekly doubles, we've played it " Benefit of the doubt goes to the player "

Show me the written rule and I'll be a confirmed believer. I played Sandlot ball by the same rule. Worked there, but it isn't in the baseball rulebook.

 

[Ye Olde Am]

Lyle, check 805.1A

 

[slowplastic]

Show me the written rule and I'll be a confirmed believer. I played Sandlot ball by the same rule. Worked there, but it isn't in the baseball rulebook.

I was definitely trained as an umpire to make the call. Every call has a correct call and stick to it. The call you make is the correct call. There is no such thing as a tie. Plus what benefits the runner does not benefit the fielder (the runner likely just hit a crappy ground ball, that the fielder then had to get into position, catch, transition, and throw cleanly...so what is one player's benefit sucks for the other guy who actually made a better play). Drives me nuts when people say "tie goes to the runner". No it doesn't and there aren't ties.

The first time I heard someone say the "blades or grass" thing in a round after I started getting more into playing more tag/real rounds, I thought they were making crap up. Turns out that's actually how it works at the "pro level" of this sport. I thought it was a joke then and I think it's a joke now.

Edit: ^Saw that link just now. Fine for local/whatever rounds but it's pretty crazy that that's how it works for actual tournaments.

 

[@iDiscGolf]

Something tells me Cat would be all smiles while kicking the asses of the majority of people in this thread.

Still doubt it.

 

[lyleoross]

Lyle, check 805.1A

See, as I've said before, I learn new things here all the time. Thanks Ye Old,

However, there's a reason why most sports don't do the benefit of the doubt thing. It leads to long term arguments about certainty. I'm willing to bet this wording came about from the casual growth of disc golf. It's like the honor code in Ultimate. That's given way to referees because while it works in a casual setting, in more competitive settings it doesnt. Eventually, you're going to have an argument. Someone is going to say something like Catrina said and the other side isn't going to take it well. In a passive fashion, she accused her card of ganging up on her. If a marshall makes the call, and it's absolute, there's no room for argument. And yes, I know, we're not there yet.

 

[Quinntastic]

The only thing with Westside is they don't seem to have any sort of team. I mean, even a small promotional team. All you hear is DD and L64, but never Westside except for their discs. I mean, I agree with you, but considering how they haven't added any even moderate names, let alone a big name, since Barsby left (I heard he was sponsored by Westside before Diety Discs, dunno if that's true), so I just don't see them as someone who would pick a name up.



Although, adding one of the top two or three women in the game would certainly be one way to start your sponsored team.

Like I said, seeing as they have no team to speak of, at least as far as big names on feature cards, so adding her to kick start a new team might be a good boost for sponsor and sponsee.


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[dorseymatt]

Not me. Val or Des can kick my butt. Both smile a lot, are very friendly and rock the discs.

Imagine "smile a lot" being a determining factor for which dude you want to play a round with.

 

[lyleoross]

Imagine "smile a lot" being a determining factor for which dude you want to play a round with.

I don't know about you, but yeah. That would be for me. Pleasant demeanor, and smiles a good bit matters to me. Male or female. Call me silly that way. BTW, each is a determined player too, but that matters less to me. Same goes for men on my cards.

It's why Barsby is one of my favorite Pro players. Simon is up there too. Nate is my favorite. He jokes, laughs and is serious at times. But i define his demeanor by his pleasant nature.

 

[Quinntastic]

It's not about "smiles a lot". I mean there are plenty of dudes I'd totally love to play with who don't smile a lot. How often does McBeth smile when he's in the zone? Who really does? When people are on camera we see about .00001% of who they are. So regardless of what you see on camera doesn't take away she is a killer golfer.


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[dorseymatt]

I don't know about you, but yeah. That would be for me. Pleasant demeanor, and smiles a good bit matters to me. Male or female. Call me silly that way. BTW, each is a determined player too, but that matters less to me. Same goes for men on my cards.

It's why Barsby is one of my favorite Pro players. Simon is up there too. Nate is my favorite. He jokes, laughs and is serious at times. But i define his demeanor by his pleasant nature.

Pleasant nature is totally understandable. I think the "smiles a lot" thing is a bit different, considering how frequently women are essentially told they owe men smiles. Look at the way you described your ideal men -- "jokes, laughs." The women "smile a lot." I doubt you intended it that way, but think about it--it's different.

 

[lyleoross]

It's not about "smiles a lot". I mean there are plenty of dudes I'd totally love to play with who don't smile a lot. How often does McBeth smile when he's in the zone? Who really does? When people are on camera we see about .00001% of who they are. So regardless of what you see on camera doesn't take away she is a killer golfer.


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True, but that wasn't the point. Enjoyable atmosphere was, at least for me. Paul is serious, but even he's chatty and part of the card. Playing with Ricky, in a real round, brings nothing. He's so in his own space you're just watching him play. I'd rather spectate and admire the skill. Now, I've seen Ricky in casual play, and iirc he's much more chatty.


It depends on why you're playing with said Pro I guess.

BTW, I suspect that Catrina would be good in a casual round. As many have said, she's pleasant when not in competition mode.

 

[NegaSnapples]

See, as I've said before, I learn new things here all the time. Thanks Ye Old,

However, there's a reason why most sports don't do the benefit of the doubt thing. It leads to long term arguments about certainty. I'm willing to bet this wording came about from the casual growth of disc golf. It's like the honor code in Ultimate. That's given way to referees because while it works in a casual setting, in more competitive settings it doesnt. Eventually, you're going to have an argument. Someone is going to say something like Catrina said and the other side isn't going to take it well. In a passive fashion, she accused her card of ganging up on her. If a marshall makes the call, and it's absolute, there's no room for argument. And yes, I know, we're not there yet.

Even at the highest levels of club/college Ultimate they still use the honor system first. They have what they call "Observers" who only make a call when the players can't agree on something. Only the AUDL uses referees.

Either way, there is also an honor code in golf. Disc golf players should try to emulate some of those standards tbh.

 

[lyleoross]

Pleasant nature is totally understandable. I think the "smiles a lot" thing is a bit different, considering how frequently women are essentially told they owe men smiles. Look at the way you described your ideal men -- "jokes, laughs." The women "smile a lot." I doubt you intended it that way, but think about it--it's different.

How people take things is on them, not me. I've dealt with enough people to know that some traights are universally desired. So while I get your point, I'm not fussed about my position on this. My crafting of what I said about male players was in response to what you wrote. Des has a personality similar to Nate' Sexton's. Val is similar to Nate Doss, maybe why their married? Nate is always ready with a smile.

I consider their personalities the same.

This sort of reminds me of the earlier comment on someone saying Catrina should smile. The instant response was as if the poster had written that she needs to put up a come hither smile. If we read posts and there's no real indication of intent, it might be safer to assume no malcontent rather than to assume the person has an agenda.

 

[lyleoross]

Even at the highest levels of club/college Ultimate they still use the honor system first. They have what they call "Observers" who only make a call when the players can't agree on something. Only the AUDL uses referees.

Either way, there is also an honor code in golf. Disc golf players should try to emulate some of those standards tbh.

Yep, but I suspect the more Ultimate becomes standardized, the less honor code and more referee you will see. Someone once wrote here that the honor code works in ball golf cause everything gets filmed. A top pro can't risk the repercussions. From what I've seen of human nature, I wouldn't disagree.

 

[NegaSnapples]

Yep, but I suspect the more Ultimate becomes standardized, the less honor code and more referee you will see. Someone once wrote here that the honor code works in ball golf cause everything gets filmed. A top pro can't risk the repercussions. From what I've seen of human nature, I wouldn't disagree.

All golfers use the honor code though. College golfers don't have camera crews following them around every tournament, and that's still a pretty high level of play... From what I've seen so far playing and watching disc golf, the players would do well to take some notes from golf's honor code.

 

[roggenb3]

Someone once wrote here that the honor code works in ball golf cause everything gets filmed. A top pro can't risk the repercussions. From what I've seen of human nature, I wouldn't disagree.

Yeah, the only reason Arnold Palmer didn't cheat all the time is bc he was nervous that pesky camera would catch him.

Or, maybe the majority of golfers are...honorable? Shocking, I know.

 

[lyleoross]

All golfers use the honor code though. College golfers don't have camera crews following them around every tournament, and that's still a pretty high level of play... From what I've seen so far playing and watching disc golf, the players would do well to take some notes from golf's honor code.

So the long standing and quite fine tradition our culture has of joking about cheating in bolf is... sour grapes?

 

[lyleoross]

BTW dorseymatt made me consider something. The debate over which fpo player we'd play with is in and of itself sexist. In an attempt to be, I don't know, supportive? we've gone down an unhealthy pathway. How many here would choose Catrina, or Val or Des as their top pro to play with in the pool of all pros? Speaking honestly, Barsby. He's a laugh, smiles a bunch, ie he's having fun. Even that's a toss up with Feldberg or Des. Both are teachers in background. I admit it, I'd be looking for tips. Mercenary of me, I admit.

 

[NegaSnapples]

So the long standing and quite fine tradition our culture has of joking about cheating in bolf is... sour grapes?

I didn't even know that was a thing tbh. Sounds like weird sour grapes yeah. It isn't surprising with the amount of gatekeeping that goes on with this sport.