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Hyzer-Flip
- Thread starter hendersondayton
- Start date
WillACarpenter
* Ace Member *
Hyzer flipping an understable mid can give you CRAZY FUN results. There are a few holes that I just hyzer flip the snot out of a Meteor. I throw it up the left side of the fairway and it breaks right rather late and either keeps going right towards the basket or lands center fairway for a shot at a long putt or an easy 3.
I used to throw a stalker really flat and the best I could hope for was to be on the far left of the fairway taking a risky second shot and hoping to get close enough to sink the 3.
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I used to throw a stalker really flat and the best I could hope for was to be on the far left of the fairway taking a risky second shot and hoping to get close enough to sink the 3.
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Mr. America
* Ace Member *
I understand what an Hyzer Flip is, how it is thrown, and have been working on it myself with Leopards and getting pretty good results.
I don't understand why it works. I would think making the disc flip and work itself flat would use some of its spin/energy, but obviously I don't know much lol.
I guess I should just be happy with "it just does"?
I don't understand why it works. I would think making the disc flip and work itself flat would use some of its spin/energy, but obviously I don't know much lol.
I guess I should just be happy with "it just does"?
kenjiac
Double Eagle Member
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2008
- Messages
- 1,080
Faster disc are for people that can throw hard with alot of snap at the hit. Keep your disc down in speed rating. Start with fairway drivers. I 1st learned to hyzerflip with an archangel. Try also maybe a stingray. You need to me able to generate that snap at the hit.
Technohic
* Ace Member *
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2009
- Messages
- 8,517
I understand what an Hyzer Flip is, how it is thrown, and have been working on it myself with Leopards and getting pretty good results.
I don't understand why it works. I would think making the disc flip and work itself flat would use some of its spin/energy, but obviously I don't know much lol.
I guess I should just be happy with "it just does"?
You are using the discs turn in its different speeds to lift it, keeping it in the air longer.
So when it is like this / its turning up away from the ground to go to this __ which is its cruising position but it just had the split second before when it was at / giving it extra time in the air.
Someone else can probably explain this better than I can.
Mr. America
* Ace Member *
Yeah, I've noticed this, or thought this also. You've replied to my thread about trying to get more nose down. All that comes from trying to throw flat. If I try to do a hyzer flip, I get much better results, on distance shots at least.
if every shot could be a H-Flip I'd be ok!
WillACarpenter
* Ace Member *
I would explain it more like this....
Throughout the entire flight your disc is hauling ass away from you. On a flat release the disc flies flat -- then fades left / into the ground.
If you try to throw that same shot really hard and fast you'll end up turning it over. Starts off -- then turns \ and goes really far to the right...but not as sharply right as the other shot faded left...why? Because the disc WANTS to fade back left, it's the physics of a clockwise spinning object.
with a hyzer flip you're starting it / and it bullets ahead to -- now you're at the same flat shot you already took...but the disc is already 50' in front of you or so...and now it MAY still start to turn over right \ while doing so it is fighting its fade the entire time...but you did waste some of the energy flipping up from / to -- at the beginning of the throw...so it fights the urge to turn over to the right and die...so it comes back flat -- and fades left once it's slowed down /. Also this line causes your disc to get some good height...meaning it has more time before hitting the ground so is more likely to come back.
so a hyzer flip CAN look like this: / -- \ --/ which just gives you monster distance.
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Technohic
* Ace Member *
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2009
- Messages
- 8,517
You can use that same hyzer angle for most shots if you want. You just have to be creative with how much of an angle and how stable a disc is. For example, a Teebird thrown flat will go straight but you can also do that with a new Cheetah thrown with some hyzer angle on it and it will flip up to flat and fly straight. For something that will be like that a little better when broken in, Im hoping a Gazelle will do it.
Just watch out for headwinds or it will keep turning.
hig2a4life
Par Member
Alright, so here's what I think is a more thorough explanation of what is going on with a hyzer flip:
When a disc is spinning, it has a tendency to want to "follow" the direction of the spin. So when your disc is spinning clockwise like it is for RHBH players, the tendency is for the disc to start moving to the right. This doesn't generally happen in a smooth transition where the disc remains level and just moves or "slides" right because there are too many other factors that also affect flight. When you release on a hyzer angle, the disc is tipped like this: / That angle changes what the spin can do. If you released it flat with a lot of spin, a stable disc will "slide" a little right to follow the direction of the spin, but with a hyzer release this type of motion is impossible. After all how often do you see a disc fly through the air like this: | and move to the right (unless you're playing in a hurricane). So what does the spin do instead? it causes the disc to tip up to flat because clockwise spin makes the right side of the disc "heavy." If your disc is stable, it will fly flat with little left to right motion and then gently hyzer out or finish relatively level. If the disc is understable, the "heavy" right side will be accentuated and the disc will flip a little more putting the right side low and causing movement to the right. A lot of the time the disc will finish out that way or gently hyzer at the end. Some discs resist this flipping up tendency and are called overstable.
Now the tricky part: actually throwing one of these shots.
A lot has already been said on this aspect of it, but it all comes from good mechanics. If your form is good, this shot will basically be your natural throwing motion. Unfortunately for most amateurs, you have the hyzer release portion of it down, but the spin portion is non-existent. When you're practicing this shot, play with super slow discs (Mako, Cro, Spider, Roc). It is much easier to get the speed and spin necessary to flip these up than it is with fairway drivers, or the super fast discs that Ams love to throw off the tee. Also as a parting note, the tendency for a lot of amateur players is to start out with this natural hyzer motion and then they try to "fix" it which usually means completely strong-arming shots and rolling the wrist over to exaggerate the anhyzer position. Please DO NOT do this. Throw slower discs and work on good clean form instead of messing your game up for years.
When a disc is spinning, it has a tendency to want to "follow" the direction of the spin. So when your disc is spinning clockwise like it is for RHBH players, the tendency is for the disc to start moving to the right. This doesn't generally happen in a smooth transition where the disc remains level and just moves or "slides" right because there are too many other factors that also affect flight. When you release on a hyzer angle, the disc is tipped like this: / That angle changes what the spin can do. If you released it flat with a lot of spin, a stable disc will "slide" a little right to follow the direction of the spin, but with a hyzer release this type of motion is impossible. After all how often do you see a disc fly through the air like this: | and move to the right (unless you're playing in a hurricane). So what does the spin do instead? it causes the disc to tip up to flat because clockwise spin makes the right side of the disc "heavy." If your disc is stable, it will fly flat with little left to right motion and then gently hyzer out or finish relatively level. If the disc is understable, the "heavy" right side will be accentuated and the disc will flip a little more putting the right side low and causing movement to the right. A lot of the time the disc will finish out that way or gently hyzer at the end. Some discs resist this flipping up tendency and are called overstable.
Now the tricky part: actually throwing one of these shots.
A lot has already been said on this aspect of it, but it all comes from good mechanics. If your form is good, this shot will basically be your natural throwing motion. Unfortunately for most amateurs, you have the hyzer release portion of it down, but the spin portion is non-existent. When you're practicing this shot, play with super slow discs (Mako, Cro, Spider, Roc). It is much easier to get the speed and spin necessary to flip these up than it is with fairway drivers, or the super fast discs that Ams love to throw off the tee. Also as a parting note, the tendency for a lot of amateur players is to start out with this natural hyzer motion and then they try to "fix" it which usually means completely strong-arming shots and rolling the wrist over to exaggerate the anhyzer position. Please DO NOT do this. Throw slower discs and work on good clean form instead of messing your game up for years.
hig2a4life
Par Member
What I mean by the right side being "heavy" is that with forward motion and clockwise spinning motion, the left side is moving faster than the right side of the disc. This creates a low pressure area on the left side of the disc causing to want to tip to the right. If a disc is truly stable (not over or under), you can put as much spin as you want on the disc and it will remain flat without tipping to the right.
toothyfish
* Ace Member *
Three big reasons to use a hyzer flip, or at least my reasons:
1) to get a straight shot on a low line - my favorites for this shot is either a beat-in DX Gazelle or really beat-in DX Teebird. Both of these discs loose fade as they beat in, but they also develop more turn (the Teebird will ramin stable for a while, though). If throw them "flat" they turn, so releasing on a hyzer angle will allow them to flip up to flat. They are also very glidy in this state so they will go a long way on this lower line and as they slow down, they won't fade very much at all. Perfect for long drives that need to hold dead straight. Beat DX Rocs, or understable mids work well for this, too.
2) to throw bigger distance drives - again, understable discs or beat in stable discs are generating alot of lift, so naturally they tend to go a bit further than then stable discs, and usually with a bit less power. Also, the hyzer pull-through (lower to higher, and the nose down advantages already discussed) typically allow for more power, by virtue of the way we're put together. So now you combine a long flying disc with a powerful release and you get a shot that puts alot of speed and spin on the disc, it will flip to flat rather than turn over too much, and will glide, glide, glide...accuracy isn't as important here so a bit of turn is fine, but you've really been able to get alot of speed and spin on the disc, which will carry it the extra distance.
3) to get very late turning shot - I like really beat-up DX Eagles and Teebirds for this. Say there is a fairway that starts straight but the basket is tucked behind something to the right (for RHBH) or there is a right-dogleg toward the end, and you can't throw a big anny. Normally this disc would turn really huge (which has it's uses, too) and not fade at all. So by using a hyzer release, I can delay the turn. It's so flippy that it starts to flip up right away, and continues to turn past flat and will turn, but maybe not until it's 2/3 of the way there. And it won't fade back at all.
But in order to make these shots, it still takes all the fundementals of good form. That's why using mids are easier because you don't have to be able to throw them as hard.
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jimbosprint
Double Eagle Member
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2010
- Messages
- 1,820
I have tried to explain this to folks I play with but they just don't get it. Then they are stunned at the shots I can make with a roadrunner (a disc they would never consider carrying).
hendersondayton
Eagle Member
I appreciate the length at which this thread has taken off. A lot to digest really. My goal is going to be to practice with my Wolf and Valkyrie to try to get a good form. As suggested by most of you.
I would think it is better to practice this in an open field on a semi-calm wind day, this to really see how the disc is going to move for its entire flight. Rather then getting mixed results based on wind and trying to avoid trees.
I would think it is better to practice this in an open field on a semi-calm wind day, this to really see how the disc is going to move for its entire flight. Rather then getting mixed results based on wind and trying to avoid trees.
hig2a4life
Par Member
You'll quickly find that the Wolf can ONLY be hyzer flipped if you want it stay in flight for more than 100 feet before burning into the ground. As you transition away from that disc to say a worn-in DX Roc, you'll notice you need less hyzer to achieve the same hyzer-flip results. It should be easier on your wrist since the angle won't be so extreme.
hendersondayton
Eagle Member
That is good to keep in mind. If I am throwing a Hyzerflip right, the wolf will fly longer. I did do this on accident a few times. The Wolf moved Right gently, and then turned left at the end.
WillACarpenter
* Ace Member *
Roadrunner, Stratus, Archangel, Dragon, TD, Avenger SS and Meteor...all of them can wreck some fairways if given the chance.
I've got one hole locally that a left hand fade puts you shooting a bit odd towards the safe landing zone to shoot for the green (par 4, got my first birdie this week using the following technique) you need a slight left to right shot...but staying left gives you a really crappy line and coming back too far left puts you OB in some deer grass...and there's almost ALWAYS a right to left super wind so if you turn it over more it either pushes you straight down...or lifts the wing up and fades you OB.
The distance SHOULDN'T be a problem...but the weird release angle can make it appear so...so I threw a Stratus off to the left on a huge low line hyzer flip. I held the thing nearly verticle | and it flipped flat nearly instantly...air bounced a little...still heading away like a bat out of hell...then as it started to turn right the wind pushed it straight down to the PERFECT fairway spot. I haven't seen anybody land in that area yet...I thought it was pretty sweet...then when I got up there I was absurdly happy about it.
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I did a quick skim through and mostly everything is answered. Here is a good video posted in another thread for visual though, I'll just quote.
There's a lot of good stuff in this thread, I don't think I could add more to the form of throwing a hyzer flip, but I did notice something
Something that is spinning clockwise actually wants to turn to the right in relation to its forward motion. A right handed baseball pitcher puts counter-clockwise spin on the ball to throw a curveball or slider and the ball moves to the left while in the air. A disc is flying, not acting like a projectile like a ball or anything else, so there is a lot more physics explaining why they turn and fade the way they do (and yes there are a few threads on this already).
Something that is spinning clockwise actually wants to turn to the right in relation to its forward motion. A right handed baseball pitcher puts counter-clockwise spin on the ball to throw a curveball or slider and the ball moves to the left while in the air. A disc is flying, not acting like a projectile like a ball or anything else, so there is a lot more physics explaining why they turn and fade the way they do (and yes there are a few threads on this already).
hendersondayton
Eagle Member
OK! Tried it! I was able to "flip" my wolf a few times and have it come back for me. It was petty fun to watch. There were a few times that I put too much hyzer angle on it and it just turned over and rolled, like a wolf shoud do. There is not much margin for error there. It seems, if i let go of it with more than like 15 degrees on it, it cannot flip over.
