Making your shoulder lever longer

[RoDeO]

And again, I don't think you understand the words you use. One theory I have is that you are actually coming around to feeling some things, but are for some reason unwilling to ever admit that you have been just wrong. So you invent these weird semantic gambits. I really don't know though, I can't figure out your motivation to be here.

It's hard to explain things is what it is. I understand the brace and pivot well enough. What we are discussing is where the center of the axis is from which the levers of the arm rotate from. To my understanding, it has been suggested that this axis is not originating around the spine area but the shoulder area of the off throwing arm thus making the lever of the hinge longer by rotating around that shoulder. If that's not what is being discussed then forgive me for not understanding.


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[RoDeO]

What motion or rotation is required to throw a disc on a certain plane? Where is the center of the axis of rotation? What is the perpendicular axle or axis plane responsible for ejection of a disc such as angle of release (hyzer, anhyzer, etc)?

This GIF answers those questions. Watch Nate's shoulder positions with the hotel in the background and note how they almost perfectly swap places while the head location stays the same. Look at the angle of the spine relative to the angle of the ejection of the disc on a hyzer angle. All these things tell us that the axle or axis is the spine area of which the rotation that the levers are attached to and rotating around on that plane.

 

[RoDeO]

 

[sidewinder22]

When you pitch, do you not catapult the trailing/throwing shoulder from the lead shoulder? Or do both shoulders keep rotating together?

 

[RoDeO]

When you pitch, do you not catapult the trailing/throwing shoulder from the lead shoulder? Or do both shoulders keep rotating together?

Pitching mechanics are a bit different than throwing a disc backhand. Apple's to oranges.

 

[bsammons]

Pitching mechanics are a bit different than throwing a disc backhand. Apple's to oranges.

It's a human downswing move mirrored to the opposite side. Studying pitching mechanics is what helped me grasp the concept of the brace's full job in the backhand throw. Forehand and backhand are remarkably similar just mirrored to one side or the other and forehand uses pecs/obliques primarily for delivery while backhand uses lats/rear delts.

Again, the brace does so much more than just transfer momentum. That's why from a standstill someone with good form can throw ~75% of their maximum distance. If you would just listen to the well of information presented to you on the forums you would be able to throw so much further.

I guess what confuses me so much is that the only person you're really hurting is yourself. Countless people have spent hours trying to point you in the right direction to help you improve and help prevent you from injuring yourself, but the only thing you do is reject the information and keep steaming ahead on a path that isn't as fruitful as the one we're trying to guide you to. If you listen to the wisdom here I promise you you'll be able to throw so much further, and your throws will be so much easier on the body. I just don't understand why you don't want to let us help you learn.

 

[RowingBoats]

Pitching mechanics are a bit different than throwing a disc backhand. Apple's to oranges.

I think what you mean to say is:

"Pitching mechanics are a bit different than my misconstrued conception of the disc golf backhand swing. This will remain the case until I can thaw the absurdly calcified notion I have developed, and refuse to alter in any way, shape or form."

 

[RoDeO]

I think what you mean to say is:

"Pitching mechanics are a bit different than my misconstrued conception of the disc golf backhand swing. This will remain the case until I can thaw the absurdly calcified notion I have developed, and refuse to alter in any way, shape or form."

No, there are enough differences between throwing a baseball to throwing a disc backhand that it's hard to compare what is being discussed.

I see no one commented on the 2 Gifs I posted dealing with where the center of rotation is. Must be right eh?

 

[RowingBoats]

No, there are enough differences between throwing a baseball to throwing a disc backhand that it's hard to compare what is being discussed.

I see no one commented on the 2 Gifs I posted dealing with where the center of rotation is. Must be right eh?

No, you aren't right. I am just done saying the same **** over and over, and reading other people do the same.

Not sure why I even replied today. I share guilt in all of this recent circular stupidity. I do think a lot of people here genuinely want you to understand a couple of things, but, think it's time to let you do you.

 

[RoDeO]

It's a human downswing move mirrored to the opposite side. Studying pitching mechanics is what helped me grasp the concept of the brace's full job in the backhand throw. Forehand and backhand are remarkably similar just mirrored to one side or the other and forehand uses pecs/obliques primarily for delivery while backhand uses lats/rear delts.

Again, the brace does so much more than just transfer momentum. That's why from a standstill someone with good form can throw ~75% of their maximum distance. If you would just listen to the well of information presented to you on the forums you would be able to throw so much further.

I guess what confuses me so much is that the only person you're really hurting is yourself. Countless people have spent hours trying to point you in the right direction to help you improve and help prevent you from injuring yourself, but the only thing you do is reject the information and keep steaming ahead on a path that isn't as fruitful as the one we're trying to guide you to. If you listen to the wisdom here I promise you you'll be able to throw so much further, and your throws will be so much easier on the body. I just don't understand why you don't want to let us help you learn.

Again. I understand the brace very well. Maybe we both have a hard time communicating but the reality of it is that as my throw has gotten much stronger I feel the brace much stronger. But we aren't really speaking of the brace here. We are speaking of making the lever longer and if the axis of rotation can be moved to the shoulder. No, you cannot move the axis of rotation to the shoulder.

 

[RoDeO]

No, you aren't right. I am just done saying the same **** over and over, and reading other people do the same.

Not sure why I even replied today. I share guilt in all of this recent circular stupidity. I do think a lot of people here genuinely want you to understand a couple of things, but, think it's time to let you do you.

For instance- there is no bringing the baseball in close to the body, or the "power pocket". In Baseball, the most efficient pitching mechanics is from a 3/4 arm slot where the arm comes straight out from the body and in line on the shoulder plane. You see this as the pitcher brings the baseball out front but before release. Maybe this is similar to the disc golfer in the power pocket position. The problem is in comparison, that the disc golfer is bringing the disc as close to the body as possible whereas the pitcher is bringing it as far away as possible. Thus why it's apples to oranges.

 

[sidewinder22]

Pitcher's do bring the ball in close(as possible) as the arm lays back. The arm is not fully extended until the end just like disc golf. Ball lags behind the elbow just like disc golf throw.

If you were to pitch backhand, the shoulders work the same way, just mirrored.

 

[RoDeO]

Pitcher's do bring the ball in close(as possible) as the arm lays back. The arm is not fully extended until the end just like disc golf. Ball lags behind the elbow just like disc golf throw.

If you were to pitch backhand, the shoulders work the same way, just mirrored.

If a pitcher brought in as close as possible it would be in and touching the body of which it is not. Im not sure what a pitcher slinging a pitch has to do with defining where a disc golfers upper body axis point is?

 

[RowingBoats]

If a pitcher brought in as close as possible it would be in and touching the body of which it is not. Im not sure what a pitcher slinging a pitch has to do with defining where a disc golfers upper body axis point is?

Now you are defining the axis as a point in the upper body?

Words mean things.

 

[RoDeO]

Now you are defining the axis as a point in the upper body?

Words mean things.

Look at the GIF I made of Will. Ask me this- where is the center or axis of his rotation? Is it more near his shoulder or more near his spine? Just answer me that please.

 

[bsammons]

Look at the GIF I made of Will. Ask me this- where is the center or axis of his rotation? Is it more near his shoulder or more near his spine? Just answer me that please.

I'll bite.
In the gif if you watch his right hip, his quad extends the plane upwards, and his torso rotated around his right hip, the brace. You likely won't agree with me but that's where his body is rotating.
Again, it's pointless to discuss rotation until you fully understand the brace. The brace is the fulcrum of bodily rotation and leverage, on every plane, and needs to be fully understood in order to properly discuss making a lever longer.

 

[RoDeO]

I'll bite.
In the gif if you watch his right hip, his quad extends the plane upwards, and his torso rotated around his right hip, the brace. You likely won't agree with me but that's where his body is rotating.
Again, it's pointless to discuss rotation until you fully understand the brace. The brace is the fulcrum of bodily rotation and leverage, on every plane, and needs to be fully understood in order to properly discuss making a lever longer.

I disagree that his torso is rotating around the hip. If that were so, shouldn't his right hip be mostly stationary instead of moving from right to left?

I agree that the whole body pivots around the brace foot pressure and that the pivot does extend upwards. But the flight of the disc is most dependent upon the axis and rotation angles of the torso, spine. The question of importance I guess is can one make that line of rotation travel up from the brace into the upper body and be somewhere besides the spine such as the shoulder? I don't believe so. The Gifs I made pretty clearly show the center of rotation is centered pretty closely around the spine area. The head is connected to the spine and thus why you see the head remain relatively stationary in line with the axis of rotation.

 

[sidewinder22]

For instance- there is no bringing the baseball in close to the body, or the "power pocket". In Baseball, the most efficient pitching mechanics is from a 3/4 arm slot where the arm comes straight out from the body and in line on the shoulder plane. You see this as the pitcher brings the baseball out front but before release. Maybe this is similar to the disc golfer in the power pocket position. The problem is in comparison, that the disc golfer is bringing the disc as close to the body as possible whereas the pitcher is bringing it as far away as possible. Thus why it's apples to oranges.

The ball is not as far away as possible, it's about as close as human possible.

 

[RoDeO]

The ball is not as far away as possible, it's about as close as human possible.

True, but it's light years away, relatively speaking, from a disc being tucked into the abdomen/chest area.

 

[sidewinder22]

True, but it's light years away, relatively speaking, from a disc being tucked into the abdomen/chest area.

Mirrored backhand or reverse pitching drill.