PDGA rules on Groupings at Tournaments

[bwgort]

Did anyone notice that the PDGA major taking place this weekend didn't follow the rules in the competition manual regarding grouping players by rating?

https://www.pdga.com/rules/competition-manual/106

https://www.pdga.com/tour/event/33948

 

[davetherocketguy]

Did anyone notice that the PDGA major taking place this weekend didn't follow the rules in the competition manual regarding grouping players by rating?

https://www.pdga.com/rules/competition-manual/106

https://www.pdga.com/tour/event/33948

B.All players within a division should be grouped for the first round via one of the following methods:
1.Random grouping; players within a division may be randomly grouped for the first round.

Just took a quick glance through and unless I am missing something they are doing the random thing here for the first round...It's a real PITA on that list to try to determine who is on what card. Can you be more specific?

 

[Future_Primitive]

How so? Looks like the rules you linked to allow for random groupings in round 1. Since everyone is in the MA1 division it would seem okay.

1. Random grouping; players within a division may be randomly grouped for the first round.

Or am I missing something here?

 

[bwgort]

Just took a quick glance through and unless I am missing something they are doing the random thing here for the first round...It's a real PITA on that list to try to determine who is on what card. Can you be more specific?

First round was sorted from highest rating to the lowest. The PDGA indicates the only way to do grouping by ratings is:

Player Rating grouping; players within a division may be grouped by player rating to set first round groups. Highest rated player starting on the lowest number hole, the second highest rated player starting on the following hole, etc. This process would continue until all starting holes have been filled. For example, a division of 12 players across 3 holes set by the ranking of their ratings would be:
Hole 1: Players 1, 4, 7, and 10
Hole 2: Players 2, 5, 8, and 11
Hole 3: Players 3, 6, 9, and 12

 

[bwgort]

How so? Looks like the rules you linked to allow for random groupings in round 1. Since everyone is in the MA1 division it would seem okay.

1. Random grouping; players within a division may be randomly grouped for the first round.

Or am I missing something here?

By rating isn't random. That's why #2 exists below the part you quote. They give a procedure for how you group by ratings. This event disregarded that procedure.

 

[LateWesternSky]

If you sort by rating you can see the tee times for players who haven't started yet. Aside from a few exceptions, the tee times are in order of rating meaning players of similar rating are grouped together. Can you clarify why you believe players aren't grouped by rating?

 

[bwgort]

If you sort by rating you can see the tee times for players who haven't started yet. Aside from a few exceptions, the tee times are in order of rating meaning players of similar rating are grouped together. Can you clarify why you believe players aren't grouped by rating?

The top 4 highest rated players were on the first card. The next 4 highest rated players were on the next card. The PDGA gives a procedure for grouping by ratings, this isn't it.

All players within a division should be grouped for the first round via one of the following methods:
Random grouping; players within a division may be randomly grouped for the first round.
Player Rating grouping; players within a division may be grouped by player rating to set first round groups. Highest rated player starting on the lowest number hole, the second highest rated player starting on the following hole, etc. This process would continue until all starting holes have been filled. For example, a division of 12 players across 3 holes set by the ranking of their ratings would be:
Hole 1: Players 1, 4, 7, and 10
Hole 2: Players 2, 5, 8, and 11
Hole 3: Players 3, 6, 9, and 12

 

[Future_Primitive]

By rating isn't random. That's why #2 exists below the part you quote. They give a procedure for how you group by ratings. This event disregarded that procedure.

It would appear that #2 is based on a shotgun start where as this event is using tee times. Would that make #2 not apply in this scenario?

 

[bwgort]

It would appear that #2 is based on a shotgun start where as this event is using tee times. Would that make #2 not apply in this scenario?

No. It's the procedure for how you group cards by ratings. Doesn't matter whether its shotgun or teetimes.

 

[biscoe]

My first thought was "there's a Major this week?"

While I oppose the PDGA dictating these types of methodologies to TD's in general the rules are the rules and as such they should be adhered to.

 

[bwgort]

For those who might be interested, I wrote a blog on this subject in February.

http://www.discgolfatlanta.com/2018/02/23/new-pdga-rules-competition-rule-106/

 

[dusty5150]

Does "starting hole" = "tee time"?

 

[bwgort]

Does "starting hole" = "tee time"?

"players within a division may be grouped by player rating to set first round groups."

 

[dusty5150]

"players within a division may be grouped by player rating to set first round groups."

"Highest rated player starting on the lowest number hole, the second highest rated player starting on the following hole, etc. This process would continue until all starting holes have been filled."

 

[bwgort]

"Highest rated player starting on the lowest number hole, the second highest rated player starting on the following hole, etc. This process would continue until all starting holes have been filled."

Yes the rule doesn't state you can disregard the rule if you do tee times. I checked with the tour manager before posting.

 

[dusty5150]

Does "starting hole" = "tee time"?

Yes.

ty

 

[JC17393]

IIRC, this is how the USADGC has set groupings for years now. Doesn't make it right according to the rules, but I wonder if they were maybe given a waiver so they could continue their tradition. Granted, it's been over a decade since I played the tournament, but I believe they also do not re-sort groups by score after round 1 (also not kosher with the rules), they keep the same groupings and simply reverse the tee time order (first group on Friday is last group on Saturday and so on). Then they re-sort by score for the final round.

 

[bwgort]

IIRC, this is how the USADGC has set groupings for years now. Doesn't make it right according to the rules, but I wonder if they were maybe given a waiver so they could continue their tradition. Granted, it's been over a decade since I played the tournament, but I believe they also do not re-sort groups by score after round 1 (also not kosher with the rules), they keep the same groupings and simply reverse the tee time order (first group on Friday is last group on Saturday and so on). Then they re-sort by score for the final round.

I checked whether they received a waiver before I made the post. They did not. I get that people have done stuff like this for years but public comments about the practice are the only way to create change. If TDs at Majors don't follow the rules, it makes it more likely that TDs who TD C-tiers will also not follow the rules.

 

[Cgkdisc]

There have been recent discussions in the Competition Committee about better ways to do tee time groupings. The way USADGC does it is fairer for "contenders" than either of the current approved methods. But there's even a better, fairer way it could and probably should be done, following some of the ways ball golf does it.

 

[biscoe]

There have been recent discussions in the Competition Committee about better ways to do tee time groupings. The way USADGC does it is fairer for "contenders" than either of the current approved methods. But there's even a better, fairer way it could and probably should be done, following some of the ways ball golf does it.

Fairness to "contenders" should not be a concern. Fairness to everyone should. No one is a "contender" before the first disc is thrown.

Please elaborate on the 'better, fairer way".