Wysoki vs. McBeth

[dashiellx]

And of course we know that words were exchanged after "Sharpie-gate" at Worlds.

I missed this and I can't find anything about it using search. Can you explain or copy a link?

 

[SD86]

I missed this and I can't find anything about it using search. Can you explain or copy a link?

What I call "Sharpie-gate" was the incident where Ricky and another player (name escapes me at the moment) had identical discs next to each other, but they weren't uniquely marked, which the rules state they should be. McBeth made a complaint about it, and he and Wysocki got into a verbal "philosophical discussion" about it...

 

[lyleoross]

What I call "Sharpie-gate" was the incident where Ricky and another player (name escapes me at the moment) had identical discs next to each other, but they weren't uniquely marked, which the rules state they should be. McBeth made a complaint about it, and he and Wysocki got into a verbal "philosophical discussion" about it...

Deven Owens? There was a greater context. Paul found out he had made an OB error earlier and went to the TD and took his strokes. It seemed he was of the mind set that one should be up front about one's errors and he felt that Ricky was pushing back. Purely out of my nether regions though.

 

[DinosaurThunder]

After these recent incidents - Ricky comes across childish and Paul comes across very professional. Glad Paul is holding himself and the rest of the field to such high standards.

 

[lyleoross]

If I were to hazard a guess, Ricky may feel, incorrectly IMO, that since he's been the dominant player this year, Paul is trying to nitpick him with the rules. However, Paul has always done this, played by the rules and expected others to. I read a lot from pundits here about calling the rules. Paul is the one Pro who seems to do it conistently. Good on him.

 

[Streets]

At least on the NT/PT/WT level, I think this string of incidents makes the need for marshals pretty evident.

 

[Pbmercil]

However, Paul has always done this, played by the rules and expected others to. I read a lot from pundits here about calling the rules. Paul is the one Pro who seems to do it conistently. Good on him.

At least on the NT/PT/WT level, I think this string of incidents makes the need for marshals pretty evident.

Except that Paul didn't really do what he could/should have, which is issued a formal warning to Rick and Devan on the spot. He tried to differ to the course marshal, to not look like a bad guy, and by that time it was to late. If he really wants to play by the rules and hold guys to a high standard he needs to make the calls himself and not ask a marshal to do it for him. Also, we have marshals already, so I'm not sure what you're trying to say streets

 

[ScottyLove]

My favorite quote from Ricky recently...

"I've always said if I play up to my potential, and he[McBeth] plays up to his potential, I'm gonna win."

He's basically saying, "I'm better than you."

 

[lyleoross]

My favorite quote from Ricky recently...

"I've always said if I play up to my potential, and he[McBeth] plays up to his potential, I'm gonna win."

He's basically saying, "I'm better than you."

Paul said something similar though, in the LA times interview. To some extent you have to be fairly confident in yourself to play at their level. I can't see either saying, "on his best day, he can beat me.". Note that Paul acknowledged last year that his two biggest competitors were Ricky and Will. But that may be exposure and opportunity. Both seem to be be pretty good peoples.

 

[lyleoross]

Except that Paul didn't really do what he could/should have, which is issued a formal warning to Rick and Devan on the spot. He tried to differ to the course marshal, to not look like a bad guy, and by that time it was to late. If he really wants to play by the rules and hold guys to a high standard he needs to make the calls himself and not ask a marshal to do it for him. Also, we have marshals already, so I'm not sure what you're trying to say streets

So, are you trying to say Paul's a bad guy, and just indirectly hinting at it so as not to be the bad guy. . If perfection is the standard, you're correct. Assuming that Paul referred to a marshall so as not to appear as the bad guy sort of looks like you can read his mind, like what I wrote above. It's semi amusing here but may not be factual.


I hate writing Nazis but in this case it's confusing, it's defer not differ (damn spell checkers). The use of the second made me think he was disagreeing with the marshal, the opposite of the point you were making, I think? Regardless, I apologize for stepping into the world of spelling nazi jerkfaces.

 

[Pbmercil]

So, are you trying to say Paul's a bad guy, and just indirectly hinting at it so as not to be the bad guy. ��. If perfection is the standard, you're correct. Assuming that Paul referred to a marshall so as not to appear as the bad guy sort of looks like you can read his mind, like what I wrote above. It's semi amusing here but may not be factual.

I'm not trying to say Paul is a bad guy. I'm also 100% onboard with anyone who wants to be a rules Nazi, particularly when we are talking about lead card MPO at worlds. I just think he was trying to have it both ways, by trying to get Rick issued a warning without having to be the one calling the warning in the first place. This is just my opinion, I'm not a mind reader unfortunately. I can't really think of any other good reason for Paul not to issue the warning himself, its fairly obvious that he knew what the rule is in the moment. Not trying to say he's a bad guy by any stretch, just that he didn't handle the situation as well as he should have.

I hate writing Nazis but in this case it's confusing, it's defer not differ (damn spell checkers). The use of the second made me think he was disagreeing with the marshal, the opposite of the point you were making, I think? Regardless, I apologize for stepping into the world of spelling nazi jerkfaces

Yeah, my bad. I meant defer, not differ.

 

[onemilemore]

If I were to hazard a guess, Ricky may feel, incorrectly IMO, that since he's been the dominant player this year, Paul is trying to nitpick him with the rules. However, Paul has always done this, played by the rules and expected others to. I read a lot from pundits here about calling the rules. Paul is the one Pro who seems to do it conistently. Good on him.

Ding ding ding. Winner.

At least on the NT/PT/WT level, I think this string of incidents makes the need for marshals pretty evident.

The issue here is numbers and fairness. PDGA had marshals at Worlds, but they were roving so they could hit multiple cards. If you leave a marshal on the lead card, you have people complaining about fairness on other cards. There aren't enough marshals to have one on each card at this point, so you either need more marshals for big events or some kind of compromise/agreement as to which cards (top 5?) get them.

Then there's the whole gentleman's game/spirit of the game argument that it's always been self-officiated and should remain that way. I don't necessarily agree with that point but I understand it and how it's woven into the fabric of the sport.

 

[lyleoross]

I'm not trying to say Paul is a bad guy. I'm also 100% onboard with anyone who wants to be a rules Nazi, particularly when we are talking about lead card MPO at worlds. I just think he was trying to have it both ways, by trying to get Rick issued a warning without having to be the one calling the warning in the first place. This is just my opinion, I'm not a mind reader unfortunately. I can't really think of any other good reason for Paul not to issue the warning himself, its fairly obvious that he knew what the rule is in the moment. Not trying to say he's a bad guy by any stretch, just that he didn't handle the situation as well as he should have.

I do think you're correct, he could have handled it better, but on average I'd also say Paul is better at rules obeyence (my created word for the day) than most. As pointed out upthread, he watches other players pretty closely, consistent with our notion that the player is responsible for the rules.

 

[Flick Maniac]

My favorite quote from Ricky recently...

"I've always said if I play up to my potential, and he[McBeth] plays up to his potential, I'm gonna win."

He's basically saying, "I'm better than you."

There was a time I thought that was the ONLY quote from him. During Euro Masters interviews and then again at Worlds it was almost like he had a mantra along the lines of "gonna stock my game plan i feel like my game is very strong i dont care what the others are doing as long as i am hitting my lines and sticking to my game plan i feel like it is gonna be very tough to beat me". He would reply to almost any question with some iteration of said mantra.

 

[dashiellx]

There was a time I thought that was the ONLY quote from him. During Euro Masters interviews and then again at Worlds it was almost like he had a mantra along the lines of "gonna stock my game plan i feel like my game is very strong i dont care what the others are doing as long as i am hitting my lines and sticking to my game plan i feel like it is gonna be very tough to beat me". He would reply to almost any question with some iteration of said mantra.

"You're gonna have to learn your clichés. You're gonna have to study them, you're gonna have to know them. They're your friends."

 

[SD86]

The issue here is numbers and fairness. PDGA had marshals at Worlds, but they were roving so they could hit multiple cards. If you leave a marshal on the lead card, you have people complaining about fairness on other cards. There aren't enough marshals to have one on each card at this point, so you either need more marshals for big events or some kind of compromise/agreement as to which cards (top 5?) get them.

Then there's the whole gentleman's game/spirit of the game argument that it's always been self-officiated and should remain that way. I don't necessarily agree with that point but I understand it and how it's woven into the fabric of the sport.

IMHO they SHOULD have a Marshal on each of the top two cards, or at least one dedicated to the top two cards (which should be next to each other in order). People can complain about the fairness, but the most money and prestige are on those top cards, especially in later rounds. I'm surprised the top cards don't have dedicated marshals.

This also shows how the sport has grown. Yes, back in the day, players policing themselves and each other was fine. We also policed ourselves playing casual touch football as kids, but the NFL isn't going to self-police anytime soon. So maybe Disc Golf needs to think about this aspect of their growing pains, as well.

 

[Discette]

"You're gonna have to learn your clichés. You're gonna have to study them, you're gonna have to know them. They're your friends.".....Crash Davis

Bull Durham quote FTW

 

[lyleoross]

"You're gonna have to learn your clichés. You're gonna have to study them, you're gonna have to know them. They're your friends."

You're can't giveven us a quote that good, and not give the source.

 

[onemilemore]

IMHO they SHOULD have a Marshal on each of the top two cards, or at least one dedicated to the top two cards (which should be next to each other in order). People can complain about the fairness, but the most money and prestige are on those top cards, especially in later rounds. I'm surprised the top cards don't have dedicated marshals.

This also shows how the sport has grown. Yes, back in the day, players policing themselves and each other was fine. We also policed ourselves playing casual touch football as kids, but the NFL isn't going to self-police anytime soon. So maybe Disc Golf needs to think about this aspect of their growing pains, as well.

I'm totally with you on this. Part of the issue at Worlds with the disc marking thing was that the marshal was at another card at the time the situation came up, and by the time he got back Devan's disc was marked. Either way it was only still a warning, but it might come off better in situations like these to have dedicated top card marshals (I'd lean toward at least top 3 cards depending on scoring spread).

 

[lyleoross]

To fast for me. Should have remembered that.