DGPT: 2020 Discraft Great Lakes Open July 24-26

[ChrisWoj]

Mathematical or statistical assumptions, even as defined, are not arbitrary.

Just gotta go far enough into the abstract with sport. Eventually you'll come to an underlying assumption that is very arbitrary.

Now get over to the MLB thread - I want to know who replaced Albert Pujols this week in your all time best hitters list.

 

[araytx]

Just gotta go far enough into the abstract with sport. Eventually you'll come to an underlying assumption that is very arbitrary.

You're talking to a guy who knows statistical analysis four ways to Sunday. And the answer is nope, we won't. Not one that has passed the mathematical validity and reliability assessments.

 

[ChrisWoj]

You're talking to a guy who knows statistical analysis four ways to Sunday. And the answer is nope, we won't. Not one that has passed the mathematical validity and reliability assessments.

Sorry - when I say move into the abstract I'm referring specifically to the vagaries of human behavior. I wasn't clear enough. I wasn't referring to pure abstract mathematics, that was my bad in terms of communicating. I mean that: regardless of passing any validity or reliability measurement any statistic we come up with comes from a place of arbitrary decision making. Without being able to answer why we do what we do - why a competition to get an object in a hole in as few attempts as possible? - we can't eliminate the arbitrary when you move into the deeper abstracts of human behavior. At least not in this context.

Overall the initial post made to that other person was in jest. I don't consider the system arbitrary for the purposes we use them for.

 

[hurricaine]

the kj apologists in full force

if it was macbeth yall would be crying and wondering if he was injured again

kj fell apart last round why is that so hard for some to accept

has kj peaked

obviously he needs to get married first before he can fall off

 

[Geneva]

i think we all can agree he was shooting hot last round and then started to get some crappy breaks and a griplock and lost the tourney in the last round specifically the back 9

Yes, we can agree on that. KJ lost the tournament on that missed/unfortunate upshot. He was in a commanding position, and that bogey just threw him off for the next 3 holes (where he lost 3 more strokes to Eagle). And then, he suddenly was 2 strokes back... His final round was still solid, with a nice turkey on 14-16 to keep his chances alive

______________

Other thing, I'm surprised no one is talking about the weird ground action KJ got on hole 12. For me, his disc was bound to skip inside Circle 1 and instead, it just completely stopped.
This might also have been a gamechanger since he was tied with Eagle at this point.

A bit reminescent to the Simon windbounce at the Preserve.

 

[elmexdela]

uh, WRONG!




FTFM

i can easily admit i would probably shoot 80 if not 100 (strokes not rating) at tobaggon

kj smash me silly

still wasnt his best tho

 

[araytx]

i can easily admit i would probably shoot 80 if not 100 (strokes not rating) at tobaggon

kj smash me silly

still wasnt his best tho

Dude, there's a difference between "not his best" and "taking a dump." For a guy who claims "not to believe in ratings," your comments sure are proving that they are more correct than not. Ask Cgkdisc and he'll tell us all, "on average we're gonna shoot some rounds over our rating and some not so much." When a 1038-rated player shoots 1070, and 1055, the odds are that the next round he is gonna shoot not as hot. Excuse him for being only 10 points over his rating in round 3, instead of 35. His "best" this past weekend was 1074 -- and he CAN'T shoot his best every time; noone can. Otherwise it wouldn't be "his best." Now if he'd have thrown a 980 round that would have been something else, but he didn't. He played great and just got beat by others playing even greater.

Sorry - when I say move into the abstract I'm referring specifically to the vagaries of human behavior. I wasn't clear enough. I wasn't referring to pure abstract mathematics, that was my bad in terms of communicating. I mean that: regardless of passing any validity or reliability measurement any statistic we come up with comes from a place of arbitrary decision making. Without being able to answer why we do what we do - why a competition to get an object in a hole in as few attempts as possible? - we can't eliminate the arbitrary when you move into the deeper abstracts of human behavior. At least not in this context.

Overall the initial post made to that other person was in jest. I don't consider the system arbitrary for the purposes we use them for.

Hey fair enough. And Woj, sometimes I miss the sarcasm. Just call me Sheldon Cooper

 

[reezyF]

Lol..there is no Kevin Jones "posse". Nobody had any "posse" this weekend. Though I did see a couple caddies and a few girlfriends on the course. The "gang" in red is tournament staff in DGLO shirts and the spotters were given lighter red shirts.

I'm sure youre correct - but when watching the 1st round post-pro vid and final round live it seemed there were at least 2 guys in Prodigy shirts always in the vicinity Kevin. One had a camera the whole time so maybe was part of Prodigy's video team?
Of course when i quickly went back just now to prove to myselfI wasnt going crazy I could hardly find a single clip of everyone, BUT, did manage to spot the trio in 1st round footage @16:20. Those guys were definitely there, that's the posse I speak of. Almost certain I saw them several times on Sunday too but no time to search through that right now.

Could've swore I saw those same fellas matching Kev on sunday which made it seem more Bold but was probably the DGLO folks you mentioned.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

Lol..there is no Kevin Jones "posse". Nobody had any "posse" this weekend. Though I did see a couple caddies and a few girlfriends on the course. The "gang" in red is tournament staff in DGLO shirts and the spotters were given lighter red shirts.

110% correct.

KJ's "posse" consisted of: the camera crew/photogs, Udisc live scoring volunteer, and whatever spotter(s) were on that hole, plus the DGPT dude who likes to follow the lead card around (honestly have no clue why he hangs around, other than to watch the action).

I don't even think the legit tourney staff members actually spent all that much time on the course during the rounds, other than checking up on things, running water/ice out to the various holes, etc.

As you said there were a few caddies and girlfriends. Dunno why the TD/staff didn't put the kaibosh on that right from the get go. It was made clear up front that caddies wouldn't be permitted, so why should the players that followed event guidelines be penalized?

Anyone who thinks a caddy isn't significant advantage hasn't played that course on a hot, muggy, July day. It definitely makes a difference, especially later in the round.


Don't believe me? Take Simon's word for it ( go to the 8 min mark)… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gek0ybIB7l4

 

[reezyF]

110% correct.

KJ's "posse" consisted of: the camera crew/photogs, Udisc live scoring volunteer, and whatever spotter(s) were on that hole, plus the DGPT dude who likes to follow the lead card around (honestly have no clue why he hangs around, other than to watch the action).

I don't even think the legit tourney staff members actually spent all that much time on the course during the rounds, other than checking up on things, running water/ice out to the various holes, etc.

Agree the caddie thing does seem like a big advantage, though I dont recall seeing anyone not carrying their own stuff.

Perhaps I got confused by the dudes wearing Prodigy stuff and very frequently near KJ, also commonly giving him daps.... but i suppose they could have been filling those various roles you mentioned.

I'm curious now- when He daps up Charlie Cavalier (fellow prodigy teammate) at 16:20 in R1B9 - was Charlie working the udisc scoring or what?

 

[BogeyNoMore]

I'm curious now- when He daps up Charlie Cavalier (fellow prodigy teammate) at 16:20 in R1B9 - was Charlie working the udisc scoring or what?

He probably shouldn't have been there, but I don't think the staff was pushing hard to keep non-players off the course. That's #14, which is pretty close to the parking lot. You can walk down a path from the parking lot straight down to that tee. I don't recall seeing him following KJ around, but he could have hung around for a few holes.

 

[araytx]

I like KJUSA and all, but the posse following him the whole tourney seemed odd and then the whole gang going with the Tiger Woods-esque Red Sunday shirts really rubbed me the wrong way. When I saw them all in Red i got a feeling that Kev was gonna get the bad juju.

Lol..there is no Kevin Jones "posse". Nobody had any "posse" this weekend. Though I did see a couple caddies and a few girlfriends on the course. The "gang" in red is tournament staff in DGLO shirts and the spotters were given lighter red shirts.

I'm sure youre correct - but when watching the 1st round post-pro vid and final round live it seemed there were at least 2 guys in Prodigy shirts always in the vicinity Kevin. One had a camera the whole time so maybe was part of Prodigy's video team?
Of course when i quickly went back just now to prove to myselfI wasnt going crazy I could hardly find a single clip of everyone, BUT, did manage to spot the trio in 1st round footage @16:20. Those guys were definitely there, that's the posse I speak of. Almost certain I saw them several times on Sunday too but no time to search through that right now.

Could've swore I saw those same fellas matching Kev on sunday which made it seem more Bold but was probably the DGLO folks you mentioned.

He probably shouldn't have been there, but I don't think the staff was pushing hard to keep non-players off the course. That's #14, which is pretty close to the parking lot. You can walk down a path from the parking lot straight down to that tee. I don't recall seeing him following KJ around, but he could have hung around for a few holes.

KJ was clearly mic'ed up for something all weekend, so shouldn't we kinda EXPECT the same person(s), like maybe a camera crew, following him around for something?

 

[nothinbuttree]

Anyone who thinks a caddy isn't significant advantage hasn't played that course on a hot, muggy, July day. It definitely makes a difference, especially later in the round.


Don't believe me? Take Simon's word for it ( go to the 8 min mark)… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gek0ybIB7l4

And especially on hole 18 after humping up the hill on 17 after a 3 hour round. 18 is an 'all you got' shot to reach the green, Kudos to the lead card for all even getting there (JC just nicked a branch but had the power to get there). Even for top level athletes a caddy would be big on that course.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

KJ was clearly mic'ed up for something all weekend, so shouldn't we kinda EXPECT the same person(s), like maybe a camera crew, following him around for something?

I saw the pack in his back pocket. I dunno if someone had to follow him around for that or not.

Whether I was spotting on Sat, or spectating from the road Sun, I was paying attention to discs, not who was where they didn't belong.

 

[elmexdela]

Dude, there's a difference between "not his best" and "taking a dump." For a guy who claims "not to believe in ratings," your comments sure are proving that they are more correct than not. Ask Cgkdisc and he'll tell us all, "on average we're gonna shoot some rounds over our rating and some not so much." When a 1038-rated player shoots 1070, and 1055, the odds are that the next round he is gonna shoot not as hot. Excuse him for being only 10 points over his rating in round 3, instead of 35. His "best" this past weekend was 1074 -- and he CAN'T shoot his best every time; noone can. Otherwise it wouldn't be "his best." Now if he'd have thrown a 980 round that would have been something else, but he didn't. He played great and just got beat by others playing even greater.



Hey fair enough. And Woj, sometimes I miss the sarcasm. Just call me Sheldon Cooper

yeah sorry i dont currently microscope all the fine details of ratings and scores like you have

seems kinda fun might be a hobby i pick up down the road idk

 

[araytx]

yeah sorry i dont currently microscope all the fine details of ratings and scores like you have

seems kinda fun might be a hobby i pick up down the road idk

Sure, np.

Just letting you know that no matter what people say, the ratings are pretty darned accurate. I mean Paul wins a lot, right? He's also rated a stroke and a half (per round) above the next best group of players. It works.

 

[DanJon]

So wait, caddies were explicitly not allowed and some players still used them?

Disc Golf is very professional.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

So wait, caddies were explicitly not allowed and some players still used them?

Hey Folks - we will be sending out an email on COVID-19 guidance for this event tomorrow. Expect Phase 1, no spectators, no caddies. Final meetings with the team and the park to confirm are today and tomorrow.

Also - players will receive an email with the official 2020 caddy book by Saturday, the day that the course layout will be officially installed.

There weren't many caddies... but there weren't zero, either.

 

[brutalbrutus]

 

[ru4por]

So wait, caddies were explicitly not allowed and some players still used them?

Disc Golf is very professional.

Also, specifically NO SPECTATORS.....yet, I saw a couple cards with friends/girlfriends walking along. In particular Nikko.