DGPT: 2020 MVP Open at Maple Hill Sept 11-13

[Jolt]

And adding to my post. . why did only Hokom give Paige that spot?
Cat decided to putt out as the camera was faceing Paige and Hokom deciding Paiges spot...just odd

 

[Discraft Dad]

She have to throw from the spot her card mates give her? nothing she can do?

She could state that she is protesting the decision and take a provisional from the spot she thinks she should throw from and then figure it all out after the round.

 

[ToddL]

She could state that she is protesting the decision and take a provisional from the spot she thinks she should throw from and then figure it all out after the round.

A provisional won't do you any good. The TD can't tell you where you went out of bounds an hour later.

What you can do is hold a vote. 1 vote for spot A, 1 vote for spot B, 2 abstains. That's a tie, so you pick the ruling that's most beneficial to the player.

 

[txmxer]

I also wonder about the GG scoring error.

As I understand it now, they have a score keeper, but players are supposed to confirm the score card. Apparently on each hole?

I know last i paid attention to BG players kept detailed cards of their own. I would have expected the same in DG.

Regarding GG—a 3 was scored on a hole he threw 2. Did they correct the error and then add a penalty stroke? Or just add a penalty stroke? Basically doubling his penalty?

If a player did the opposite, scored one lower, wouldn't they correct the error and add one penalty stroke ?

 

[ToddL]

As I understand it now, they have a score keeper, but players are supposed to confirm the score card. Apparently on each hole?

I know last i paid attention to BG players kept detailed cards of their own. I would have expected the same in DG.

Regarding GG—a 3 was scored on a hole he threw 2. Did they correct the error and then add a penalty stroke? Or just add a penalty stroke? Basically doubling his penalty?

If a player did the opposite, scored one lower, wouldn't they correct the error and add one penalty stroke ?

Correct score plus 2 penalty strokes.

If the correct score is 60 but you turn in a 61, the final score is 62.
If the correct score is 60 but you turn in a 59, the final score is 62.
If the correct score is 60 but you turn in a 65, the final score is 62.

The general practice that players *should* follow is to keep their own score on a paper card or on their phone, and at the end of the round confirm each hole. "Starting on hole 1, I have 3, 2, 3, 4... Total of 60. Does that match?"
Anything less than that is risky.

 

[ru4por]

Correct score plus 2 penalty strokes.

If the correct score is 60 but you turn in a 61, the final score is 62.
If the correct score is 60 but you turn in a 59, the final score is 62.
If the correct score is 60 but you turn in a 65, the final score is 62.

The general practice that players *should* follow is to keep their own score on a paper card or on their phone, and at the end of the round confirm each hole. "Starting on hole 1, I have 3, 2, 3, 4... Total of 60. Does that match?"
Anything less than that is risky.

With new phone scoring, via UDisc or PDGA live scoring, I have adopted this process. We also have taken to encouraging this for our tournaments.

Someone keeps score electronically to turn into the TD. Someone on the card keeps a paper scorecard, for everyone, as a back up. All players are always encouraged to keep their own scorecard. Validate these before turning in your scores. A side note....agree to record players scores once. Too many times the electronic scorer and the paper scorer are not coordinated and player have to repeat their score. That can get annoying. It seems tedious, but I have seen this process solve many issues. I am not a fan of electronic scoring. As a player, I don't see a time where a paper back up will not be needed. I am not big of doubling the work. But, the work saving for the TD is enormous.

 

[Discraft Dad]

A provisional won't do you any good. The TD can't tell you where you went out of bounds an hour later.

There was video to look at. Also tournament officials as eyewitnesses.

 

[brutalbrutus]

There was video to look at. Also tournament officials as eyewitnesses.

Can't use video evidence...

From the Q&A...

PDGA policy is that video evidence can only be used to document player misconduct as defined under section 3.03 of the Competition Manual. Evidence of player misconduct may be evaluated at any time No other use of video or other media is allowed for the purpose of making rulings during tournament play.

 

[Flick Maniac]

Video evidence is not accepted tho. (likely as it is not available for all the cards). It would also be all kinds of cans of worms. (See! Totally a footfault, as I browse the video frame by frame, look!)

 

[Discraft Dad]

Can't use video evidence...

From the Q&A...

Video evidence is not accepted tho. (likely as it is not available for all the cards). It would also be all kinds of cans of worms. (See! Totally a footfault, as I browse the video frame by frame, look!)

Well what about any other officials with the tournament serving as eyewitnesses?

 

[Discraft Dad]

The more I think about it the more I think that Flick is right when it comes to opening a can of worms.

 

[araytx]

And adding to my post. . why did only Hokom give Paige that spot?
Cat decided to putt out as the camera was faceing Paige and Hokom deciding Paiges spot...just odd

On Facebook they posted. I believe the posts are on On the Box with Dixon Jowers page. Sarah was apparently the only one watching. Cat even kept apologizing profusely because she wasn't watching, saying she was very sorry she wasn't. Sarah was emphatic about giving the OB spot where she thought for sure it crossed over, without looking at what that lie gave Paige. I guess Paige could have tried to say differently if she wanted.

With new phone scoring, via UDisc or PDGA live scoring, I have adopted this process. We also have taken to encouraging this for our tournaments.

Someone keeps score electronically to turn into the TD. Someone on the card keeps a paper scorecard, for everyone, as a back up. All players are always encouraged to keep their own scorecard. Validate these before turning in your scores. A side note....agree to record players scores once. Too many times the electronic scorer and the paper scorer are not coordinated and player have to repeat their score. That can get annoying. It seems tedious, but I have seen this process solve many issues. I am not a fan of electronic scoring. As a player, I don't see a time where a paper back up will not be needed. I am not big of doubling the work. But, the work saving for the TD is enormous.

Here's another option. even easier, imho. On electronic scoring, anyone can just look at them yourself -- any time. You can open up your own phone on live scoring and see the mistake right then and there -- if you want to.

 

[ru4por]

Here's another option. even easier, imho. On electronic scoring, anyone can just look at them yourself -- any time. You can open up your own phone on live scoring and see the mistake right then and there -- if you want to.

I don't own a cell phone. During the few tournaments we have had this year, both parks had spotty cell coverage and certain providers could not get a signal at all. All tournaments ended up having electronic failures that paper back up scorecards were needed and used.

 

[DanJon]

I don't know, it didn't appear to me that PP even crossed inbounds at all.

 

[araytx]

I don't own a cell phone. During the few tournaments we have had this year, both parks had spotty cell coverage and certain providers could not get a signal at all. All tournaments ended up having electronic failures that paper back up scorecards were needed and used.

fair enough. It's definitely possible no one other than the scorekeeper of the group would.

 

[ToddL]

Correct score plus 2 penalty strokes.

If the correct score is 60 but you turn in a 61, the final score is 62.
If the correct score is 60 but you turn in a 59, the final score is 62.
If the correct score is 60 but you turn in a 65, the final score is 62.

The general practice that players *should* follow is to keep their own score on a paper card or on their phone, and at the end of the round confirm each hole. "Starting on hole 1, I have 3, 2, 3, 4... Total of 60. Does that match?"
Anything less than that is risky.

I'm gonna quote myself and add to it.

This should be your process for every round at every tournament, no matter if the tournament is using electronic or paper scoring.
Checking your score at the end of the round is not merely about checking the math to make sure it was added up correctly. You should also check to see if the scorekeeper wrote down each individual hole correctly. Maybe the scorekeeper accidentally flipped the scores of two players. Maybe the scorekeeper didn't understand what you said because you had a mouthful of food. Maybe the scorekeeper thought he knew your score and wrote it down without asking.

If you keep your own score at all times and actually verify that each score is correct, then you'll be much safer against incorrect score penalties.

 

[Orioles_Lefty]

It has been golf and disc golf tradition that players keep score. I can see reasons for electronic scoring for keeping fans up to date (like CBS keeping score at a ball golf tournament) and I could see business relationship reasons for tournaments or even the Tour wanting to use electronic scoring interfaces. But, were I a pro player, I would want decisions about how official score is kept and reported to be ultimately made by players. And having a scorekeeper that keeps scores which players have to confirm seems a deviation from traditional procedures to me. I'm not sure if I would really care how score is kept (paper or digital) but I would care who is involved — were I am pro player. No one is volunteering to keep score for my group in intermediate tournaments, that's for sure.

 

[txmxer]

I'm gonna quote myself and add to it.

This should be your process for every round at every tournament, no matter if the tournament is using electronic or paper scoring.
Checking your score at the end of the round is not merely about checking the math to make sure it was added up correctly. You should also check to see if the scorekeeper wrote down each individual hole correctly. Maybe the scorekeeper accidentally flipped the scores of two players. Maybe the scorekeeper didn't understand what you said because you had a mouthful of food. Maybe the scorekeeper thought he knew your score and wrote it down without asking.

If you keep your own score at all times and actually verify that each score is correct, then you'll be much safer against incorrect score penalties.

thanks for reposting that. I missed it before. Makes sense. A scoring error is 2 penalty strokes over the correct score, no matter the error made.

 

[Casey 1988]

My general recommendation is to curve/bulge the OB lines so that bridges are completely encompassed inside an OB area. It might not be feasible for every bridge, so if you have to run an OB line across a bridge, make it clear that part of the bridge is IB and part is OB (run a string across the top, paint a line across the top, etc).

If a bridge or part of a bridge is IB, then you also have to deal with discs coming to rest under the bridge. Make sure your players know that moving discs from the ground to the bridge is not legal. Either stick your leg under the bridge (the IB section), or treat it like a solid obstacle and move behind the bridge.

I prefer to just bypass the issues altogether and just put all bridges inside OB areas.

Yep or make the whole bridge above the OB area in play, one or the other needs to be done for tournaments.

Jackson park in Rapid City had for a PDGA tournament I was at the one bridge in play and below not. This made for odd stuff on a Open Pro card where the guy had to somehow play from a lower skinny piece of lower ledge where his disc landed hooked hanging when the new bridge was made there a bridge. That did not have rails, so he had to have a person on the card hold him up so he could play. Yes the TD said this is how the hole has to be played as any disc on the bridge in play and not play as OB or I will give a penalty for playing wrong so would end up a double penalty to that guy. The old little bridge that was the bridge before declared OB due to size and how it was a basic cross the stream thing too small to really throw from was gone/removed for the new better bridge was made that sucked for just the one player. I think after that year for tournaments if on the skinny under-hang part, the player was ob it was just the top deck of the bridge in play.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

Correct score plus 2 penalty strokes.

If the correct score is 60 but you turn in a 61, the final score is 62.
If the correct score is 60 but you turn in a 59, the final score is 62.
If the correct score is 60 but you turn in a 65, the final score is 62.

The general practice that players *should* follow is to keep their own score on a paper card or on their phone, and at the end of the round confirm each hole. "Starting on hole 1, I have 3, 2, 3, 4... Total of 60. Does that match?"
Anything less than that is risky.

On the PDGA page for this event, Gurthie's official score for all three rounds is: 166 (tied for 5th with Dickerson @ $1350 each).
If not for that 2 stroke scoring penalty, GG would've been at 164, and tied for 3rd with Heimberg ...who received $1700.